Is Tate Publishing a Scam?
Today, I want to take one more look at Tate Publishing and Enterprises LLC. In case you missed Tuesday’s post, Tate Publishing is a subsidy press that focuses on unpublished authors. They charge a $3,990 publicist setup fee, but they do appear to have sufficient staff to justify their claim that they have allocated $27,000 for each book. Today, I want to look less at promises and more at results. In the interest of showing rather than telling, take a look at the video below:
One of the services that Tate Publishing provides is that they create fifteen second spots like the one above and run them on cable networks. They promise 80,000 impressions. Or to state it another way, they promise that 80,000 people will see that commercial. Someone from Tate Publishing is welcome to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they charge an additional fee for these commercials.
The way I would expect this to play out is that each commercial will air one time with about 80,000 people watching. They may have to run it more than once to reach the 80,000, so a few people might see it more than once. They may run these things in an infomercial, with several 15 second slots queued up between thirty second slots encouraging people to publish through Tate Publishing. I don’t know because I’ve never seen one of these Tate Publishing commercials running on any network that I’ve ever watched. To me, that is a terrible result.
On top of that, consider the content of the commercial. It has a voice over, which is a good thing, but it is poorly written. The language is far too formal and there’s nothing to convince me that I want to spend a few hours in the land of this story. While this is just one case, consider also the product descriptions for the books that Tate Publishing is trying to sell. To do that, go to a site like Amazon.com and on the Advanced Search page type in “Tate Publishing” in the publisher field. The following is the description from a book called Purchased Power:
My point is that the results Tate Publishing are getting is more in line with what you would expect from a subsidy publisher charging a $3,990 entry fee rather that those of a high quality traditional publisher that is paying $27,000 per book. But let’s not jump to the conclusion that Tate Publishing is a scam. A more likely explanation is that they are not selective enough. The fact is, it is easier to produce a good book if the author knows what he’s doing. Combine with that fact that the editing budget is a little low and it is no surprise that their results are less than ideal. But if you happen to be an author who can’t get a contract from a traditional publisher, a subsidy press like Tate Publishing may be just what you’re looking for. As long as they aren’t telling you they will do one thing and they do another, they are not a scam.
One of the services that Tate Publishing provides is that they create fifteen second spots like the one above and run them on cable networks. They promise 80,000 impressions. Or to state it another way, they promise that 80,000 people will see that commercial. Someone from Tate Publishing is welcome to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they charge an additional fee for these commercials.
The way I would expect this to play out is that each commercial will air one time with about 80,000 people watching. They may have to run it more than once to reach the 80,000, so a few people might see it more than once. They may run these things in an infomercial, with several 15 second slots queued up between thirty second slots encouraging people to publish through Tate Publishing. I don’t know because I’ve never seen one of these Tate Publishing commercials running on any network that I’ve ever watched. To me, that is a terrible result.
On top of that, consider the content of the commercial. It has a voice over, which is a good thing, but it is poorly written. The language is far too formal and there’s nothing to convince me that I want to spend a few hours in the land of this story. While this is just one case, consider also the product descriptions for the books that Tate Publishing is trying to sell. To do that, go to a site like Amazon.com and on the Advanced Search page type in “Tate Publishing” in the publisher field. The following is the description from a book called Purchased Power:
John Moore is a successful and brilliant yacht designer living the good life outside of San Francisco. Life seems perfect, when without warning he discovers his wife is being unfaithful and plotting to take over his business. He quickly devises a plan to save his business and leave her for good. He soon finds himself in a world he did not know existed--a world of global political corruption and intrigue. Purchased Power is a story of human weakness, greed, and good people whose errors in judgment put their lives on perilous paths. Follow John Moore on an epic journey to some of the most exotic countries in the world as he tries desperately to save a good woman from the clutches of the corrupt.This is one of the better ones and still it needs work. The author typically writes these things, but it’s still the editor’s responsibility to help clean them up. This is the first thing potential customers will see.
My point is that the results Tate Publishing are getting is more in line with what you would expect from a subsidy publisher charging a $3,990 entry fee rather that those of a high quality traditional publisher that is paying $27,000 per book. But let’s not jump to the conclusion that Tate Publishing is a scam. A more likely explanation is that they are not selective enough. The fact is, it is easier to produce a good book if the author knows what he’s doing. Combine with that fact that the editing budget is a little low and it is no surprise that their results are less than ideal. But if you happen to be an author who can’t get a contract from a traditional publisher, a subsidy press like Tate Publishing may be just what you’re looking for. As long as they aren’t telling you they will do one thing and they do another, they are not a scam.
Comments
There are certainly people who would agree with you on that, but the simple truth is that publishers are not interested in all books. They either don't think enough people are interested or they don't know how to reach those that are. There is nothing wrong with someone with publishing skills offering their services for a price. Where it becomes wrong is when such a person promises a level of success that they cannot guarantee.
A Moment to Think by Matt Kistner | ISBN # 978-1-62024-789-1 | Tate Publishing
www.tatepublishing.com
A Moment to Think by Matt Kistner, published by Tate Publishing is available online for sale. (ISBN 978-1-62024-789-1)
I would also like to comment on the fee that they charge. The fee is not for their services, but rather the services of the publicist who they acquire for you, and it is refundable after you sell 1000 copies.
Not everyone has $4000 that they can dish out right away. Tate Publishing is aware of that and will work with the author on a payment plan of some sorts.
On top of all this, the staff is friendly. My acquisitions editor is great and she made me feel like she really believed in my work. She also was very good at reassuring me that every effort would be put into making my book a success.
The company is legitimate and seems to have had quite a bit of success. I haven't spent years studying business but I know that no one invests in something they plan to LOSE money on. That being said, I'm sure they will use all their resources to bring success to themselves and to their writers.
For how well Tate Publishing has helped me, Google search my ISBN number for the Warren, 9781617772450 and start counting.Several of those booksellers sell into more than one country, and The Warren is currently being offered for sale in 36 nations; I am very happy with Tate Publishing.
Yes my name is Fred L Tate, but I am not related to Tate Publishing; there are Tate's everywhere, I just happen to be one of them.
Anyway, if you go to Tate's homepage, you'll see that they like to take a chance on new authors, and waiting around for agents to get back to you (only if they are interested in your manuscript) is no fun. I stumbled across Tate. My contract was overnighted. I was skeptical, but made the mistake of telling my family. Of course I could have self-published for $200, but that would have been to cheap. My dad insisted on lending me the money. Insisted. He said he looked it up, found all the big names and glowing reviews. I knew better, but I guess I got caught up in the moment, too, and have been regretting it ever since. My book was good enough to sell to be with an agent...and get real contracts (multiple submissions, you know) accept one and boom you get another. Anyhow, I can't complain about the illustrations (just a kids book this go-around) but I don't expect it will ever go anywhere, and the things I asked the marketing guy to help me with...good luck. They also want you to set up book signings at coffee shops and have at least 30 people you know (and they want the list) show up. Good news? They can be the same 30 people. Awesome, right? I can bring my own clientele to a coffee shop where of course the owners will be happy - I'm bringing in thirty customers for them. Not much in it for me.
Really, though, I have no right to complain. I knew, expressed my doubts, then threw them to the wind.
Both books were poorly edited, with typos and grammatical errors throughout. One was far worse than the other, which I believe was due to the writers' abilities.
All writers -- no matter how well they write -- need editors. If editing truly is included in Tate's package, they have very poor editors or spend little time per book on the editing.
Every book has a few errors because people aren't perfect, but these final products by Tate were a terrible disservice to the writers.
The first problems came with the copies of the pre-sale books and promo materials I received for my library visits. The books were full of typos, and my name was misspelled on one entire set of promo materials (pushcards, bookmarks, and postcards to invite family and friends to events). I contacted Tate right away to receive replacement promo materials and never received a full replacement set.
As for the typos in the books I requested a PPC process-post production changes, in which the author is charged per correction (presumably because the fault lies in the author, who signs off on the final draft for printing). However, as I began to correct the manuscript I realized the majority of the errors had not been mine to begin with, and the reason I knew this was because many of the errors were present in the foreign terms in my story (part of my novel is set in a foreign country and also has many French ballet terms). In other words, I was having to correct errors made by the editing team at Tate! One example: demi-pointe was changed to semi-point. Accents were removed from most of the foreign words, English words which should have been capitalized (Navy [the military branch], changed to navy) were changed. I went back to my original manuscript, and more than half of the errors had been created during the editing process. So I called my project manager and insisted that they make all the corrections and not charge me; he agreed. So my release date was pushed back about a month, but that was okay by me as long as the retail booksellers got clean, corrected copies.
Meanwhile, I had to make multiple contacts to different departments at Tate to prompt them to create my book trailer (which was part of the original contract) and website (which I paid for with my batch of pre-release order); by the way, my website just went online last week, when it should have been up and running last spring to create interest in the upcoming release.
Anyway, to make a long story… even longer--I had my first event at my local retail bookseller (which I scheduled-- the bookstore manager told me Tate had not made any contact with them at any time) and sold many copies, but… THE ERRORS ARE STILL IN THERE!! Plus, the book was categorized as an adult romance and must be shelved in that section, alongside bodice-rippers and other risqué titles. MY BOOK IS A YA COMING-OF-AGE STORY!!! It now on the shelf by books with covers of lusty couples and images suggesting BDSM and other crazy stuff. I mean, if you are into that, that's fine; that is not what you will find in my book, and the intended audience will never find my book in the teen section as long as it is categorized as adult romance.
Bottom line, if you look at my (and many, many others') experience with Tate and evaluate it by the criteria that Timothy uses, which is "if they say they will do something and then do something else, they are a scam" then TATE PUBLISHING IS OPERATING AS A SCAM! They don't edit their manuscripts properly, they don't market and publicize their titles, they don't distribute to retail outlets (my local bookstore only ordered copies because I set up the event), they don't produce effective professional-looking book trailers or promo materials, they don't send publicity info to the media, and they don't broadcast their book trailers on national t.v. I am now convinced that they make our books available to distributers but do not exert any effort in actually getting them into bookstore and other retail outlets to keep sales down and avoid having to refund our investments. I am not going to blame them if I don't become a NYT best-selling author, but I do blame them for not honoring their contract and exercising shady sales practices.
(888)361-9473...you can even ask for me directly or I am number 1 on our phone system if you want to leave me a message. I would be happy to speak with you to help you get a better idea of how, if possible, we can meet your needs. I may even be able to sway you in the direction of what you may be searching for, if it is not a good fit with us here at Tate. We may not be the answer for every author but we do work very hard to meet your needs and make this an affordable option for you to get the publicity and marketing that your book truly deserves. I also would be happy to get you in touch with any of our Tate Publishing Authors if you would like to speak to anyone directly about their experience with us! Thank you for this forum too! I love that authors and literature lovers have a place to come to get support and feedback from people who care about giving advice and opinions on where authors can go! Hope everyone is ready for a great 2014 and I hope to hear from anyone who wishes to speak with us further!
https://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=9781633062344
The alternative might have been wait for me to check out of this mortal coil and hope that somebody would charitably stumble onto my manuscript and get it published. That was not good enough for me.
I am pleased and proud to have a book published because it represented a quantum leap in the spectrum of doable. Just the thought that none of my parents had read an entire book in their life, and I, a generation removed from them had published a 336-page opus that I am proud of has been worth the investment.
I do have a book with Tate which is being launched soon and thus far they have lived up to their word.
Another thing, I saw a few comments stating that publishers "pay" for the rights of the books which they accept. Maybe so, but with Tate, it is the writer who retains FULL rights to their work, even if they choose to re-republish their work again with another publisher.
Lastly, those who do publish with Tate are published authors, those who don't and are rejected by other publishers are still just "wanna bes". Which should we suppose is better?
As to sounding arrogant, forgive me, that was hardly intended. I was simply stating reality. Sometimes reality isn't exactly P.C. in our modern world, but it is still the harsh line of truth. And that truth is, until you are actually published in some fashion, you are not an author. Anyone can write to one degree or another, but not everyone can be an author. If it were easy, everyone would do it. This is not an insult to anyone, we all have talents in some form or fashion, not all of which is in writing.
And again, if one does not like dealing with Tate as a new author, by contract the author retains full and complete rights over their work. After getting published you can take that finished product to another publisher and perhaps sign with them to market the book. No doubt they -or a good agent- would be more open to your work if you have a product with at least some proven success in its history. You can think of Tate as "getting your foot in the door".
Christian authors
I have been. With a publisher a few years. I have had a many many problems with them. When my next book with them is finished I will end my contract. Did you ever find a good publisher that can produce a quality product. I have been so disappointed.
Thank you,
Anonymous 63